Idaho Librarian
Vol. 58, No. 1/2

by Anna-Lise Smith

I had a chance to speak with Brenda Bailey-Hainer between sessions at the 2007 Idaho Library Association Annual Fall Conference in Nampa, Idaho. Ms. Bailey-Hainer is the Executive Director of BCR, the Bibliographical Center for Research, based in Aurora, Colorado. In 2002, she became one of Library Journal’’s “Movers and Shakers,” and she has since received the Mountain Plains Library Association President’s Board Choice Award and the CLA Technology Project of the Year. Ms. Bailey-Hainer is currently working on a Ph.D. at the University of Colorado at Denver [1]. 

Ms. Bailey-Hainer presented the keynote address at this year’s fall conference. The first portion of her address presented ways in which librarians could use Geographic Information Systems (GIS) data, census data, and circulation information to create statistical and demographic portraits of library users and non-users. In the second half, Ms. Bailey-Hainer discussed ways that libraries could use social networking software to generate interest in libraries and to entice non-users into the library. Unlike other Web 2.0 in libraries presentations, Ms. Bailey-Hainer focused on how libraries can provide opportunities for patrons to create and post their own content. She also made the important point that Web 2.0 is not just online and that librarians need to think about making library services and information available for mobile devices.

AS: [To begin,] I have a question from your keynote [address] earlier, where did the idea of using GIS for developing library services come from?

BBH: For me personally?

AS: In general, how did you get the idea? Where did it come from?

BBH: Well, how did I get the idea?... One of the things they didn’t mention in my bio this morning is, I’ve been working on a Ph.D. in Public Affairs at the University of Colorado in Denver, and as part of that program I took a class about eight years ago in Public Sector Technology, and that’s where I was first introduced to GIS and some of the city administrators from the city of Aurora, Colorado, came. We actually did an all-day Saturday workshop at their city offices, and they talked about how they were using GPS and GIS technology, and it was a pilot project with Martin Marietta. And at the time it was very cutting edge, and I think this is more common. But it caught my imagination that they were doing things like putting GPS devices on top of city street sweepers, and, for the first time, the supervisor could actually look at a screen and see where all the street sweepers were and what they were doing all day. They were also doing things, they were using portable GPS devices that knew voice recognition, and people were driving along the streets, systematically, and when they would come to a pothole, they would say, “Pothole!”

AS: Sort of like geo-caching?

BBH: Yeah, and or, you know, if they came to a sign that needed repair. And then they would go and upload the information back at the office, and then they could actually map out where all the potholes were. And then they actually had a better idea of how many trucks to send out with the asphalt filling material, etc. So those were very interesting, but also crime, looking at crime. And they had actually mapped where burglaries occurred and what time of the day and what day of the week. And so they had an interactive map that showed all of that. And so, to me, that was just amazing that you could do that kind of information and then overlay it with census data and it just seemed really applicable to libraries.… So, I started looking into how we could do that at the Colorado State Library, and we actually licensed the ESRI software and developed some local expertise.

AS: Is it [GIS] being adopted outside of Colorado, that you know of?

BBH: Oh, yes, yes. And in fact, there was a session here that I just sat through on GIS, and there’s a big project that Florida State University has been working on, GeoLib, where they’ve been mapping the physical locations of public library branches. And this has been going on for several years, and now they’re adding additional data. So there’s kind of a public, freely available use of that.

AS: Moving on to the main topic I wanted to get to …

BBH: [laughs]

AS: How do you see library technologies and services changing in the last few years? What’s emerging? Is anything going away? I know it’s a big question.

BBH: Yeah, that is a big question. I’m not sure anything really went away, except 8-track tapes. It seems like we just keep adding more and more layers that we have to support. I think there’s really been a revolution in the last couple years for libraries to adopt social networking software. And, two years ago, you know, there was a small group that really was active in it, and they were sort of proselytizing and trying to get other libraries to do things like put a site in MySpace, and now there’s talk about how to get things into Facebook and so on. And that was really revolutionary when it first came out. Also, the idea of blogs and wikis being incorporated into library services. But I do think we’ve reached kind of the tipping point. And now most libraries are aware that this other world of Web 2.0 exists and that they should be looking at how to improve services.

AS: So, thinking about that tipping point, do you think that libraries have been successful with this?

BBH: I don’t think that they’ve been, that everyone has been totally successful yet. I think, in some ways, there’s a learning curve because we’re librarians, we have this tendency to view the world as librarians. And so, I think some early experiments really … For instance, is it really exciting to a teen to come across a MySpace page that describes a library building and says, “Hi! I’m 75 years old, blah blah blah”? You know, I’m not sure that’s really the right approach and that maybe, you know, individuals should be profiling themselves. I think we’re getting there. And there’s some really, really exciting services and things going on. But we’re still in the learning stages. And some of it has to do with the age, average age of people in the library profession. And I can see that you’re not a young boomer, but that’s really where I am. And so, for many of us, you know, we don’t think digitally because we weren’t born digital. I see a lot of opportunities, but I don’t always know how to implement them myself. And so, as we get an influx of people who are right out of library school and maybe have had a different kind of introduction to technology, I think we’ll see more successes out there.

AS: Do have any ideas for the older people?

BBH: [laughs]

AS: Well, maybe not older. But how can we get the younger people really involved with them so that we can find out what they want?

BBH: And this is when you say younger you mean not users, but librarians?

AS: Both.

BBH: Wow. There’s whole books on how generations can talk to each other in the workplace, because it’s really interesting. I think, for older librarians, it would be good to look at some of those materials and, I’m drawing a blank on the name, but I could look it up [When Generations Collide, by Lunne Lancaster and David Stillman][2]. In Colorado they did an academic library summit last June, and they had speakers come in specifically on that topic. You know, about half of the presentations were on how to reach millennials. And the other half were on how to work with millennials in the workplace because they really are different…. Millennials have a different kind of reward structure than traditional boomers did. And, you know, boomers expected: “Okay, we’ll start at the bottom and then we’ll work up, and then we’ll get promoted, and we’ll do these things all in this order.” And it’s okay, you know, we have this work ethic. Not that younger librarians don’t, but it’s just different. They feel rewards in different ways. And so, I would suggest that boomers read—boomer librarians—read those books (and I’ll try and remember to send you a citation). But just understand and be very open to experimentation. And also, I think, digital natives or millennials, because everything is electronic and it’s easy to erase and redo, they’re less inclined to try and make things perfect before they are released. Whereas those of us who grew up with typewriters and carbon paper, it’s like oh, if you’re not really careful and it’s not perfect then you have to start over from scratch. So, I think that’s another kind of mindset.

AS: Sort of a wiki mentality?

BBH: Right.

AS: Well, moving over to the technology rather than the people, during your presentation I looked around and saw some people going, “This looks like a lot of work.”

BBH: [laughs]

AS: How would you address those kind of feasibility concerns that people have?

BBH: Well, I would say, you know, like any big project that could be overwhelming, you just need to cut it up into small pieces and look for progress in small steps. As opposed to feeling like you just have to leap off the cliff all at once, you know. And you can delegate different pieces of it, you know, and get some people who have different skill sets because what might seem huge and threatening to me may just seem like, “Oh, that’s a piece of cake” to somebody who comes in with that skill or who was born digital. It may not seem nearly as daunting.

AS: So do you think that these new ways of doing things and these new technologies are really changing the role of libraries?

BBH: Yep. I really do and I think we’re less … you know, to some extent we’ll still be the gateway to information, whether it’s things that we’ve purchased and are in the building or electronic information that we’ve licensed. So, to some extent, we’ll still be the gateway. But, I think libraries have to be more open to helping people become lifelong learners by actively engaging them and letting the patrons and users participate in creating the knowledge. I think that’s a really big shift.

AS: I can see how it would be, especially for some catalogers. I’ve seen ideas where, like at Penn State … they’re allowing users to tag the books in the library.

BBH: Oh, in the catalog?... In the online catalog? Yeah, or, you know, rate the books. What a concept. Yeah, the whole folksonomy concept, where natural language might be more useful than Library of Congress subject headings. What a shift.

AS: So here’s the big speculative question: what do you see happening in the future, technology-wise? Where do you think it’s going?

BBH: Well, I think … You know, it was interesting at the last BCR Board Meeting, and we have representatives from all of the eleven states that we serve, we went around the room and asked people what they thought the two next big things would be. And one of the comments that came up—and I agree with this—is there’s starting to be a revolution related to integrated library systems. And I think Open Source catalogs and circulation systems are really going to have a huge impact. Libraries for a long time have put a huge amount of money into this giant infrastructure, with a, you know, a big mainframe or a big server. Large upfront cost to invest in the software and then high annual maintenance fees. And I think they’re sort of tired of that.

And also when you have that big, cumbersome technology it’s really hard for that industry to move forward quickly. And so, I think the time’s ripe for open ILS systems, where people can experiment with what it might look like to have a totally different interface. I think that the work that OCLC’s doing with WorldCat Local is very interesting, where maybe you could scope a giant union catalog so it only shows the holdings for a particular group, and then you could even narrow it down farther and use it to show your library’s local holdings. What would happen if really all you needed is a background with something to check books in and out and track things? You know, that’s almost more like just an inventory system? And it might make the whole infrastructure a lot lighter, and more flexible, and easy to change and … What a concept. I think that that would really change the way that libraries work.

AS: So where’s the librarian in that?

BBH: Where’s the librarian in that? [laughs] Well, the librarian might be involved in—it’s not just the user—who could be participative. Think about if it was a lot easier to change your bibliographic records or do some tagging, the librarians could use it use it as a Readers’ Advisory Service. And they could add tags to books that they recommend that, you know, “if you liked this, then you’ll probably like these other books.” So I think that there’s still ways for them to provide interactive service and add knowledge and value. Shouldn’t be just wrapped up in an integrated library system and cataloging books. Actually, I think that cataloging is going to go away, too. [laughs] But that’s a whole other topic. But you know so many of the book vendors are providing the cataloging now and, you know … and you can even order books from Amazon and they come fully processed and cataloged. So maybe we could be involved in different intellectual pursuits.

AS: Well, that’s about all that I have. I didn’t want to take up too much of your time. There’s a lot of ideas on that tape now …

BBH: I hope I didn’t say anything politically incorrect.