|
Idaho
Librarian |
Hawley-House |
| Tamra,
I wasn’t able to attend the awards ceremony at the last ILA Annual
Fall Conference, but I understand that you were awarded the ILA 2004
Idaho Librarian of the Year award. I want to congratulate you ... |
Thank
you. |
| ...
for that. How did you hear about the award or ...? |
How
did I hear about the nomination? |
| Did
you year that you were nominated first, or did you hear that you
just simply won the award? |
I
actually found out about it by accident. [Laughter] But I was
formerly ... |
| Like
snooping around at Christmas. |
A
little bit like that. Yes. I happened to pick up the phone and call
a friend, and ... another friend at another library ... and another
friend there said, “Oh, I hear congratulations are in order.”And so then I started trying to figure out what I was to be
congratulated for. |
| There
was a leak somewhere. |
There
was a little leak. But then, within the next, week, I was informed
by the Chair of the Awards Committee. He telephoned and informed me. |
| How
long before the conference was this? |
I
think it must have been about three weeks, two to three weeks. He
said that they like to inform the recipients of the award so they
have time to prepare a response, a speech or something to present at
the awards banquet. |
| I
bet you were thrilled. |
I
was ... I still ... I may need to grab a Kleenex there. I am so
honored. I can’t ... [Tears] See, here I go. I can’t begin to tell you
how honored I am. The reason that I’m honored, and you’ll be
able to read it in my speech, is that it’s the very people who
taught me how to be a librarian nominated me. I don’t think you
could get any more ... I don’t think anything would mean more to
me, coming from any place else. I can’t imagine being more
honored. |
| For
someone to be so active in seeing your potential, in valuing ... I’m sure you worked as a paraprofessional? |
Well,
actually, I came to libraries in an unusual way. I came to libraries
through a past profession, like most of us in libraries do, and that
was through accounting. I was hired by the Boise Public Library to
be their Senior Accounting Specialist, and I took care of a variety
of things there. |
| Are
you a CPA? |
No,
I’m not, and, actually, my undergraduate work is in elementary
education, [Pause] and like many teachers chose something else,
[Chuckle] because it wasn’t quite the right fit, and ended up
doing accounting for ten years. That’s how I came in to libraries. |
| So
you went to Boise Public then. |
Correct. |
| And
then how long did you work as an accountant for Boise? |
For
five years. And then I worked as a children’s librarian for about
five years, as well. |
| So
the seed—the love of books and the love of children—was planted
very early in ... |
Very
early. |
| ...
your academic career. Although, you didn’t ... I guess you
didn’t teach, then, in the elementary schools. |
Well,
I did my undergraduate work in education. I did my student teaching.
And then, as I finished, my husband was applying to graduate school.
So we moved—to a state where I didn’t have the credential. We
had a new baby, and I just chose to do something different. |
| Where
did you do your undergraduate work? |
At
Boise State. |
| So
you’re a Boise native, are you? |
From
near here. From Emmett. |
| Sure.
North of here. And your husband is a Boise native, as well? |
Actually,
he was born in Pocatello, was raised in Boise. So his family’s
here. |
| And
so then you moved out of state, then, before returning to Boise. |
We
lived in Davis, California. |
| Oh,
sure. Did he go to graduate school there? |
My
husband did. |
| I
... my father farmed in Dixon ... |
Really?!
How long did you live there? |
| ...
for a number of years, so I lived in Dixon for a number of years,
just near Davis. |
Sure,
we used to go to Dixon often ... to eat Mexican food at George’s
Orange. [Laughter] |
| Probably
a restaurant since I left. It was in the early ‘70s when we moved
back to Idaho. A farming community. |
We
were there in the late ‘80s, early ‘90s. |
| Solano
County and the San Joaquin Valley. |
Absolutely. |
| Very
hot in the summers. |
Yes,
it’s very hot, but it’s a great place. It was a really good
place to raise a child, too. |
| So,
you came, then ... Did you come to the Ada Community Library at
that point, then, after your return to …? |
No,
I’ve been here a year and not quite six months. |
| But
you were at Boise Public before your ... before you moved to Davis. |
No,
that was after. |
| And
so you worked as a children’s librarian at Boise Public after your
five-year stint. |
Doing
the accounting, right. It was really nice when I was doing my
accounting work there, I ... Well, this was my defining moment as
to how I knew where I wanted to go next with how I spend a great
portion of my daily life in being employed. In the children’s room
they had a volunteer who had been a volunteer for many, many years,
and he passed away. And so I suggested to the Director and the
Assistant Director that we in Administration go staff the desk so
that everybody had the opportunity to attend the memorial service.
And it was that hour-and-a-half, two hours, that I knew that’s
what I wanted to do. And so [Chuckle] I then spent the next two
years taking all kinds of classes, volunteering in Youth Services. I
got a group of friends together, and we did a volunteer story time
... offered it during a time when they didn’t have enough staff to
do it. We all rotated it so it wasn’t too overwhelming. Just
bugged the heck out of them until they finally gave in and gave me a
job. [Chuckle] |
| All
the while you were working still for the public library as ... in
their Accounting Department. |
Correct. |
| Were
you the only accountant? |
Well,
it was part of a city organization, so I was one of many for the
city. But I also had some support staff while I was there. |
| Was
your office in the library, though? |
Yes. |
| So
you were ... books were in the air. |
Absolutely. |
| Now
where did you take classes? At BSU? |
Yes. |
| What
were those classes? |
Advanced
Children’s Literature. Advanced Young Adult Literature.
Fundamentals of Reading. The Foundations of Reading. I was actually
working at a Master’s in Reading. |
| In
education ... in the College of Education. |
Right. |
| Of
course, now, this was your undergraduate background, so this
wasn’t all completely new to you. |
No.
It had just been a little while since I had put it to use. |
| Was
the reading aspect, though, new? |
No,
but it’s something I’m very much interested in ... very
interested in the process involved in literacy and how people
develop those skills, what sorts of paths they take to get where
they get, and I feel like that’s part of what I want to bring to
my community, is helping parents understand so that they can provide
the kind of foundation that they need so that their children can
read. |
| But
all undergraduate education majors would have some exposure, some
background in literacy education. |
They
should. |
| Although
it’s a specialty? Would you say it’s a specialty in the ...? |
Well,
generally, my experience is that the undergraduate programs offer a
few classes, but it ... If you want to be a reading specialist,
where you deal more with corrective kinds of readings, developing
reading plans for children that are struggling, then it’s more
specialized. |
| Probably
at the graduate level? |
Correct. |
| But,
nevertheless, this is a crossover. This is a nexus or a connection
between education and libraries. |
Absolutely,
and I don’t see one without the other. I don’t see ... One
thing that I was able to do at Boise Public Library and here is
continue to be an educator and continue to be a librarian. I don’t
have to choose one or the other. I get to do them both, and I get to
approach this job as a teacher. And I take those moments any time I
can, whether it’s in a reference interview, whether it’s in a
program with story time, I’m teaching the children, as well as the
parents. And I’m very lucky that it’s something that I love to
do, and I get to do it all the time. |
| Now,
you didn’t ... You decided not to pursue the graduate degree in
Education but to continue there at Boise Public. How long did you
work in Boise Public, then, as ... in the children’s department? |
I
was there about five years. I think it was a little over five years. |
| And
then you came here to Ada County? |
I
came here in 2003. |
| So,
two years. Just last year. |
Yes.
I came in ... I started work here June 30th, and I ended work there
in late July. I did a dual thing for about a month. |
| So,
just over a year. Well, over a year. A year and several months, now.
Was at Boise Public, then, that you were encouraged to pursue the
MLS? |
It
was. And it would have been my first choice when I knew that I
wanted to become a children’s librarian. However, at that
time—five, six, seven years ago, probably closer to seven years
ago—there weren’t a lot of options out there. |
| What
options were out there? |
For
distance education, there were a few strictly Internet programs. I
believe there was one from Syracuse. There was one from Florida.
There were a handful. They had tested the Arizona program, which was
done via satellite telecommunications, that they had piloted and
tested at Boise a few years before. And at that time, Arizona was
... their accreditation was questionable. So, for me, that wasn’t
an option. |
| I
believe they lost their accreditation for a year, didn’t they? |
It
may have been longer. I’m not sure. I think they’ve regained it
since. But there just weren’t a lot of options for someone who was
not in the position to give up their current job, was not in a
position to relocate their family, and knew what kind of
learner they were and needed a specific kind of environment in order
to succeed and stay motivated. And for me, the strictly Internet
wasn’t an option ... |
| Yes,
I think ... |
...
because
of ... |
| Yes,
students take it for granted, I think, that they ... or they don’t
take seriously this question of their learning style. |
I
agree. And I think it’s crucial for people to understand who they
are, and what makes them tick, what keeps you motivated, what ... because it’s not easy to work full time, to have a family, to go
to school. So what’s going to keep you going? |
| So
how many children did you have? |
I
have one. |
| And
still a young, a young ... |
He’s
seventeen now. |
| And
yet a youngster when you were doing this. |
Right. |
| How
long have you been a librarian? I mean, when did you get the degree? |
2001.
I started the Emporia program—and this was through the satellite
at Salt Lake—I started that program in February of 2000, and I
finished in December of 2001. |
| So
not even two years. Well, two years. |
A
little under two years. |
| Were
there any options at Boise State for any library education? Are
there any courses in library science? |
And
I have to ... I don’t mean to be disrespectful to Boise State,
but I actually had enrolled in several courses ... Collection
Development ... several other things, because I was trying, along
with the reading Master’s, to work on an endorsement as a Media
Specialist within the schools to go along with my teaching
credential. |
| And,
of course, they have the curriculum to support that endorsement at
Boise State. |
Right.
They have the curriculum. What they didn’t have is the interest
and the enrollment in order to sustain a course. So, while I would
sign up for the course, most of the courses were cancelled because
of lack of enrollment. |
| I
wonder about that, too. I teach the intro course at ISU for that
endorsement program, and I wonder sometimes about the ... I always
have every semester three ... two or three, possibly four, education
majors who are considering the ... |
The
Media endorsement. |
| Yes,
but of course I don’t see them after they ... after my course, so
I don’t know how many students enroll in other courses. |
So,
does Idaho State University offer the courses that the state
requires to get the endorsement? |
| Yes,
and I’m getting the impression that Boise State does that, too. |
They
do, and I know that the University of Idaho does, because I know I
would have had that option to do correspondence, but, again, I knew
what I needed, and I need one-to-one, face-to-face instruction. |
| Now,
when you say correspondence, you mean online? |
I
think at the time their ... the University of Idaho’s wasn’t
even online. I think it was ... |
| So
literally a correspondence course. Did you have colleagues who had
gone through the Emporia program or were going through other
distance programs? I mean, did you have some encouragement from your
peers? |
Yes,
a little bit. I had ... [Pause] I’m hesitating here. I had some
encouragement and some discouragement. Some people felt that it
wasn’t really necessary that I pursue the degree, and others who
were supportive of it. |
| These
were among your peers? |
Yes. |
| So
you had other ... You had your peers, some of them, saying that the
professional degree wasn’t necessary. |
Right. |
| But
were the majority of people who encouraged you to pursue the degree
more publicly your superiors? Is that right, or ...? |
[Pause]
Not necessarily. Yes, I ... There was definitely one person who was
a superior who would very much encourage that, but I think, more for
me, it was my own interest. I was working as a children’s
librarian, and I really felt like I could do my job better if I had
what I consider a better foundation. And I think I can now do my job
better because of the schooling. |
| I
have always thought that there is no ... while there is no
substitute for work experience, the only place that one gets the
theory, the theoretical foundation, is in a degree program, in the
classroom. Would you agree with that? Is that how you felt? |
I
do. I really felt like I was missing something. But I would like to
say that a couple of the very best librarians I have ever worked
with do not have degrees, and they are incredible. And so I have
seen ... you know, I’ve seen both, and what I want to stress is
that for me I needed this, and I think I’m a better librarian for
it. |
| Do
you think those model librarians that don’t have the professional
degrees ... do you think they were motivated extraordinarily to read
in the discipline or to kind of get the theory in other ways? |
I
think so, and I think that they ... if they had been in a different
time and a different place would have pursued the degree. I think
because it’s only been within the last five years that ... |
| That
even distance courses were possible. But you had ... so you had to
rely on your own motivation, not from any encouragement. There was
... You say that there ... Not everyone encouraged you to get the
degree. If at all, it had to be your decision to get the degree,
because you felt you were missing something and you wanted to take
an opportunity to do that. |
Yes,
to see what’s out there. |
| Did
you ...? Once you had the degree, then, this position opened up, and
you wanted to ... How did you come here to Ada? |
I
had been working with this library and several other libraries in
the Valley. We started a youth services group. We met once a month.
Sometimes we just talked about, “Hey, what’s going on with
you guys? How are you doing?” Sometimes
we had projects we worked on. So I got to know different people
within the area, and I knew what this library was about. And I also
know that in the near future there’s a very good chance that this
library and the Boise library are going to be required to work even
more closely together because of the close proximity and annexations
that are happening. |
| Are
these the only two libraries in the county? |
They’re
not. There’s also the Meridian Library District in the county.
There’s the Eagle City Library in the district. There’s the
Garden City Library that’s in the county. Kuna ... |
| Is
in Ada County, as well? |
Is
in Ada County, as well. |
| Southern
Ada County. |
So
there’s actually several. |
| What
is the official ...? I mean, this is the Ada County District Library
or Community ...? |
It’s
the Ada County Free Library District, and we’re known as the Ada
Community Library. |
| But
it’s ... The important thing is that it’s a district library. |
That’s
correct. |
| Of
which there are a number of others in the county. |
Right.
A number of other libraries, not necessarily districts. A
combination of ... Well, there’s two districts, then there’s, I
think, three cities, and then ... I’m not sure what Kuna is.
They’re a school/public ... I’m not sure about their actual
library ... |
| So
you became familiar with the library here and the staff here. |
Yes. |
| Recruited?
Or did you hear that there was a job opening and applied or ...? |
I
heard that there was a job opening and applied, and it was at a time
when I was ready to kind of stretch a bit and try some new things
and ... |
| What
was your position that you left at Boise Public? |
Children’s
Librarian. |
| So
this is the head of ... Is it Youth Services? |
Youth
Services and Outreach. |
| Now,
does this include Young Adult, as well as Children’s? |
Yes. |
| And
was that true at Boise Public, or were there two separate
departments? |
No,
that was true there, as well. |
| Tell
me about the curriculum at Emporia. You’d mentioned Collection
Development as part of the library science program at Boise State to
prepare education majors for the library School Media endorsement.
I’m sure you took a collection development course as part of the
Emporia program. Was it a meat-and-potatoes course? I mean, did you
take the basic courses, cataloging, reference, collection
development? Or were some of the courses esoteric, as I hear a
number of courses in a number of library science programs are
becoming. |
Yes.
[Laughter] I think there was a real combination. Emporia’s format
for coursework is done in intensive weekends, and there are some
inherent benefits and problems with that kind of format. We would
meet on Friday evenings, all day Saturday, and Sunday until noon
with an instructor in a classroom where we would have instruction
time. And, then, when we were away, then we would be working on
projects we would perhaps be involved in … some online activities,
chatting, a variety of things. So, you got the one-on-one
instruction, but sometimes you only got kind of a taste of what
collection development was really about. Whereas, if I would have
had the, what I like to say, luxury of attending a traditional kind
of library school—which I don’t think means the same thing now
as it did even five years ago—where I could have gone two, three,
or four times a week to delve into collection development, I think
my experience would have been much different. |
| Well,
what was ...? Was it just a function of classroom time, there just
weren’t the classroom hours in the Emporia program that there
would be in a traditional program? |
Well,
I think it’s a little bit of that, but it’s also just the mere
structure of the class. You don’t get the feedback as you’re
progressing along. It was generally more independent project kinds
of things where your feedback came in an intensive time somewhere
within the project. |
| Now,
was it a semester system? |
It
was, yes. |
| How
frequently each semester did the class meet? |
Generally
each class met two weekends. |
| Two
consecutive weekends? |
They
generally weren’t consecutive. They sometimes were about a month
apart, sometimes a little bit farther. |
| But
how many ...? |
It
varied. |
| Was
it toward the beginning of the semester or toward the end? Obviously
toward the beginning the class met. |
Yes,
they tried to stagger them, so that ... because you were taking more
than one class during the semester, so they couldn’t all meet at
the same time. So you may be taking three or four courses, and
essentially going almost every other weekend. |
| So
that’s a full load. |
Oh,
yes. |
| Of
course, to finish in two years. |
Yes.
Well, I was able to transfer several credits that I had taken at BSU
because I was working on the Reading Master’s. |
| Of
course. |
So
that actually cut my time down quite a bit. They generally say the
program takes two years and eight months to complete, and they
generally recommend about three classes a semester. |
| So
this isn’t a distance class in the kind of traditional sense
[Chuckle] of a distance class, where you’re doing ... you’re
communicating with your instructor online. |
I
actually flew to Salt Lake City or Portland, Oregon, or Emporia,
Kansas, or Albuquerque, New Mexico, for each of those weekends. |
| So
you didn’t go to Salt Lake for each of your classes. |
I
didn’t. And part of the reason was that because I was able to
transfer courses, I was able to accelerate my program, and they tend
to run kind of on a track where the Salt Lake program begins on such
month, such year, and then they may have an Albuquerque program that
began six months before, they may have an Oregon program that began
six months after. And as a group of students—the cohort—you get
to vote on which kinds of electives—once your foundation classes,
your theoretical classes, are finished—the kinds of other courses
you want to see offered for your cohort. So, at that point, I took
my ... took a look at what the options were and made sure I took
classes that I really wanted to get. I also took classes so that I
could get that Media Specialist endorsement along with my teaching
certificate. |
| Which
is required in the state, is it? Or, no, in the schools, not in
public libraries. |
It’s
actually ... [Sigh] It’s not required in all of the schools. In
the Boise school district, it’s only required at the junior high
and high school level. And, to be honest with you, I don’t know
what the requirements are in some of the other school districts. But
in the elementary school district, there’s no requirement for any
kind of endorsement, any kind of training, any kind of educational
background. |
| But
it was still something you wanted, even in the public library. |
Yes. |
| Did
you take most of the core courses in Salt Lake? |
I
did, yes. |
| And
what did those include? |
Boy
... [Chuckle] |
| It’s
been a while. |
It’s
been a long time, yes. I’d like to direct you to their site! [Laughter] But there was a handful of theory courses and then
a handful of kind of application courses, so you’d have maybe a
theory behind ... I’m not going to have a good example here.
[Pause] Yes, I actually can’t even remember how to describe it,
but ... |
| Did
you take a cataloging course? |
Yes.
Right. And they way their program works is they offer the
theoretical courses first, then followed by the more applicable
courses. And then the more practical kinds of courses that you
literally take those skills back and work in the library, like the
cataloging and the collection development, those kinds of things. |
| You
were in classes, though, with students who weren’t going to be
school librarians or children’s librarians. |
Correct.
And some of my classmates, you know, maybe wanted to go into a
particular kind of library environment. Maybe a corporate or ... Emporia
offers ... I can’t remember what’s it called, but
it’s like a business management certificate. So that, if most of
the colleagues, most of the cohort members, the students, wanted to
go for that, then those would be the courses that would be brought
to Utah. Does that make sense? |
| Sure. |
So
if you weren’t interested in that, or if they were brought at the
expense of another course you really felt like you needed, then you
had the option to try one of the other cohorts, and they generally
had four to six going on throughout the United States. |
| And
the cohorts are the sites. |
The
sites. |
| And
do they always meet at a university, at a college campus? |
Well,
the pilot program that started here in Boise a couple years ago
actually met at the Idaho State Library. All of the ... and the Utah
class met at the Utah State Library. But the other locations that I
visited did happen at a university campus. |
| This
is not only a time commitment, though, but a financial commitment. |
A
huge financial commitment. Not only for me ... And again, there ... I think probably if you looked across the board, you could figure
$20,000 to get a Master of Library Science with most of the distance
programs out there, even the relocation option. I think those are
still out available. [Laughter] |
| Is
there financial aid for students interested, or did you get any kind
of aid, or ...? |
I
was able to get some aid through a variety of sources. You have to
be willing to go looking for it. |
| You
need to be proactive in searching for it. |
It’s
not going to land in your plate. |
| What
about aid from the libraries? |
Yes,
I would like to see more of that. |
| Did
you get any? |
I
did not. I think a lot of libraries particularly in the state of
Idaho don’t have a lot of options. The Idaho State Library
definitely supports that, and so they make grants available to the
libraries. Now, the way that that works is if you are an employee of
a library in the state of Idaho and you are pursuing education, your
library can apply for a grant on your behalf to reimburse for part
of your tuition. So in that way the library did help. They were
willing to be the fiscal agent for the grant, so that I was able to
take the courses. Then I submitted my report and my grades. |
| So,
in your case, you received some money in this ... |
From
the State Library, yes, via my ... |
| So
there was some financial help available for you. |
Yes.
And like I said, you have to go looking for it. I also received
scholarships through Emporia and some other places. |
| Would
you like to see librarians in the state of ... Why am I asking you
this? [Laughter] I’m sure you would like to see librarians in the
Idaho libraries become more proactive in assisting their
paraprofessionals and support staff in pursuing the degree more so
than we are. |
Absolutely.
Yes, I would love to see that. And I think there are a lot of
options now, and, before, people were discouraged because of their
physical proximity to a library school. That’s all changed now. We
can look at things differently. We can look at other ways of getting
coursework available to staff. I would love to ... and any
opportunity I get to continue my education doesn’t end with an
MLS. Every day there’s something new out there to learn. |
| Even
beyond the professional degree education doesn’t stop. You spoke
briefly about your ... about the ... some of the disadvantages of
concentrating instruction in just a couple of weekends ... intensive
instruction. What are the advantages of, not just in terms of your
being able to do it ... but are there advantages in working after
your instruction by e-mail or ...? What are the advantages of doing
it this way? |
Advantages
of the school environment or ...? I guess one of the advantages that
I see is that it is much easier to be employed in a library and to
take advantage of one of these programs. And the reason I say that
is that there aren’t a lot of jobs in libraries nationwide, and if
they all had to be concentrated around a library school, not
everybody who went to library school could be employed in a library.
So this way it’s much easier for people to have employment in a
library across the states and be able to go to a distance schooling.
And I think there’s a great advantage in that, because whenever
you’re studying something and you want to give it a try, you’ve
got a place to try it out in. Whenever people are talking about
something ... I don’t have a good example ... but you have an
applicable place. On the other hand, what was really nice about this
program is there were several people who weren’t employed in
libraries, and they give you a totally different perspective.
They’re not usually the ones saying “Oh, that will never
work.” They’re usually the ones saying “Hey, that’s cool.
Why don’t we try that?” because they’re not bogged down in the
“Oh, man, I’ll never get that approved by this one and that one
and the other one and ...”So
it was a really nice mix of people who were in libraries and who
weren’t. For me, the greatest advantage, again, was that in-person
instruction, and that’s what I knew that I needed. The other nice
thing about this is when you have a job, when you have a family, a
life, all of these things, on the intensive weekend, that’s all
you did. It was your intensive weekend. It was much easier for me to
leave my home and my work and go somewhere and just be in the moment
... to learn, to be totally wrapped up in whatever we were
discussing, in whatever we were experiencing. And that was a really
positive thing. |
| So,
although you didn’t have the advantage of constant interaction
with your instructors and your fellow students that a traditional
classroom setting would provide, nevertheless you had an intensive
interaction over a couple of weekends which an on-line course
wouldn’t give you. |
I
think so. I think maybe an online course could give you that, but I
don’t think I would have felt the connection with ... I
wouldn’t have seen a face, I wouldn’t have heard ... |
| Your
learning style requires personal interaction. |
It
does. I need to see it, and I need to ... It just doesn’t cut it
for me. |
| Tell
me about your present position here. You’re Head of Youth Services
and ... What was the second part? |
Outreach. |
| And
Outreach. Now, you’re wearing two hats, aren’t you? |
Yes. |
| Why
are they in the same department here? Or are they in the same
department, I mean do you have another office? |
I
don’t. Pretty much I think its because often times as part of
Children’s Services there’s an expectation and a requirement
that we get out. We try to partner with schools, we try to go to
community events. So, it seems like a very natural alignment. And
the bulk of my focus is on Children’s Services, but the other part
of it is to get our presence outside our physical building. |
| What
is your view of the children’s librarian’s role in education?
What is the most important goal of the children’s librarian to
you? |
Well,
that’s a good question. The most important thing is, I suppose,
just taking every moment to educate ... and, without being preachy,
in the way that librarians are so good at making people feel okay
with whoever they are, whatever their request is, whatever their
need is, but taking that opportunity to educate them, whether it’s
in how to use the catalog or how to go about researching something,
how to find something on the shelf, how to demonstrate emergent
literacy skills and activities and story times, how to help parents
get their children to certain stages and ages, how to help them
select appropriate-age materials. |
| So
literacy is probably the most important part. |
It’s
a huge part. |
| Teaching
kids how to read. There’s a tension here, isn’t there? You
mentioned making people feel good in where they’re at, and yet, on
the other hand, we want to raise people higher than they are. So
there is a tension here, isn’t there, in libraries? |
It’s
a good one. |
| We
claim to be objective, and yet we also, at the same time,
claim—and this is controversial—claim to know what people need.
How do you resolve that tension? |
I
think you have to really pay attention to them, because I think ...
Them? [Chuckle] I think patrons, like ourselves, like myself,
don’t always know what I need. I only know what I know. But what I
don’t know could very well be an option for me. I just don’t
know. And so my responsibility is to get them all of those options
and let them choose. |
| And
let them be information literate. I mean, I prefer “Freedom of
Information” to “Intellectual Freedom,” because that’s
really our function, isn’t it, to make people aware of what there
is to know, the information resources that people have available to
them? So that’s why I prefer “Freedom of Information” to
“Intellectual Freedom. ”That’s
our job, isn’t it, to let people know what’s available? |
I
think so. And that doesn’t always mean ... What’s available
isn’t always in print. It isn’t always a tangible kind of
resource that you can neatly package and hand someone. Sometimes
that resource is you, sometimes that resource is me, and that’s
all part of the deal. |
| You’d
mentioned, too, and this is something that I hadn’t considered, as
not a youth librarian. Of course, I grew up in libraries as a
kid, but that’s not my focus now, that’s not my contribution.
But you spoke about the reference interview with a parent. I had
never considered that a youth librarian, a children’s librarian,
may deal with parents just as frequently as with children. |
And
grandparents and teachers and child-care providers and ... |
| Is
that ...? Are the majority of reference questions asked by adults
even in children’s departments, or do you have children ...? |
I
don’t know if it’s the majority, but they’re definitely a
large portion. |
| What
is the difference between answering a reference question for a child
and answering a reference question for an adult? |
[Pause]
The difference ... There’re a lot of similarities in that a lot
of times they know exactly what they want, and a lot of times they
have no idea, they don’t what they’re getting at, they don’t
know where to ask. There often are conflicts when you have the
parent and the child together, because they generally are wanting
two different things, even though when they come in here their
intentions are that they want the same thing. And there’s a real
dance that is done in order to get to that. |
| [Laughter]
I would have never thought of that. Trying to reconcile the
differences between an adult and ... |
The
parent who knows what the child needs and the child who knows what
... that what they need isn’t what the parent thinks they need.
And then there’s usually a teacher who is requiring something
quite different. Yes, it’s interesting. But we do deal with a lot
of ages. We get a lot of grandparents who are bringing their
grandchildren in here for a variety of resources, as well. |
| And
do you still have adults coming back into the Children’s Room for
nostalgia purposes trying to reread all the books ... |
The
classic joke is “I read this book when I was a kid, and it had a
red cover on it. [Laughter] You know, there was a boy and a dog. You know the one!” |
| Of
course, here it is! [Laughter] |
The
dog died. Oh, well!
[Laughter] |
| What
about adults just learning to read? Do you have a number of them, or
do you have a program of adult literacy? Do they use the
children’s room? |
I
think that that is something that all libraries could do a much
better job at. I saw more of that at the Boise Public Library
because there is an adult literacy program, a family literacy
program, housed in the same building. It’s the Learning Lab.
It’s a separate non-profit organization, but they had a physical
presence in the building. |
| So
they use the library. |
Not
as much as you would want them to. And I think there’s a stigma
that goes along with that. And I think that’s something that
libraries really are not doing a good job at, is making people,
particularly adults, who are learning to read, comfortable. You know
we ... some of us have great bibliographic resources that deal with
high-low materials—high interest rate, low vocabulary—but we
just don’t do a very good job of collecting for it and making
those resources more readily available. |
| Yes,
does some of the blame lie with the publishing industry, though? Are
those resources published as frequently ... |
Probably. |
| ...
as they should be? |
Probably.
I mean, we all know what is happening with the publishers and how
limited and limited and limited our selections are getting as
they’re ... |
| They
publish for a market, so unless there’s someone there to buy the
book they’re not going to ... |
Right. |
| ...
they’re not going to put it out. Is Ada a wealthier library
district than Boise Public? Could that ...? Is that whey they don’t
have as many adult learners or adults learning to read or ...? |
Well,
I don’t think it’s necessarily ... Boise is a little more
diverse. You have kind of across the board ... We are in a more
suburban kind of area. I think transportation is a big issue. There
is no public transportation that stops at our door. It’s a mile or
so down the road where the city bus stops. But I think the fact that
they’re ... We’re not downtown, so we’re not seeing ... We
don’t have homeless populations that come here and regularly use
the library. And I think the fact that we don’t have a literacy
program in the building ... |
| So
there are a number of variables that contribute to the fact that you
have fewer adults here learning to read. |
Now
they could be here and we’re just not paying attention. There
seems to ... We seem to get more requests from other language
learners where the parent and child will come in and the child will
interpret for the parent, and they’ll be looking for materials in
a variety of formats to help them learn English. |
| Is
Spanish mostly the ...? |
It’s
actually not. We do have a Spanish collection, but what I have seen
is a real range. |
| There’s
a variety of second languages here. |
Yes.
Boise school district, I think, serves like 84 some different
languages. |
| Amazing,
isn’t it? Boise is just ... It’s growing and diversifying. Now,
I understand that, in terms of books being challenged, the school
librarians are those of us who deal with that more often. But what
about a children’s librarian? Is that true also? Will parents
challenge more frequently a book ... certainly more than in an
academic library ... but is it true more in a children’s
department than in the adult department? |
You
know, I need to see some statistics to be able to answer that. I
tend to see and pay attention to those children’s titles that are
being challenged. I don’t have the same focus for adult materials.
But it definitely happens. It happens, I think, at all libraries. |
| So
it’s happened here? |
Yes,
and for a variety of reasons. |
| Are
some of them legitimate? |
Well,
I think that’s a relative question. I think there’s certainly a
lot of materials in this library and any library I’ve been to that
I don’t particularly care for, but that doesn’t mean that I’m
not going to purchase them. |
| And
someone might take offense at anything. |
Absolutely,
yes. |
| Are
there challenges, though, challenges of materials that don’t fit
your collection policy and therefore might be legitimate challenges?
Or do you have a collection policy? |
Well,
I think that it’s very sound in that we’re here for a variety of
interests. We’re not focused like an academic library or a
business library. We’re here for the recreational and
informational needs. Now, when you’re recreational and you’re
informational, what doesn’t fit in there? There’s not a lot. |
| That’s
right. I can see that it wouldn’t be as easy, on those grounds, to
challenge a book in a public library as it would be in an academic
library. You know, “Why are you collecting Jackie Collins novels
at Boise State University?” |
You
know, a father was here a couple months ago, and he picked up a
video off of the cart, and it was an adult video that happened to
make its way down here. And I don’t even remember what it was, but
he said, “Oh, do you guys purchase these?” And we said,
“Yes.” He goes,
“Really?” I said, “Yes, you know, we purchase videos for recreation
...” |
| Was
it a motion picture? |
Yes,
it was a motion picture. It was rated R. I don’t remember what it
was. And he said ... I wasn’t sure what he was getting at. I
wasn’t sure if he had a problem with the movie, with the ... And
he said, “But it’s rated R,” and I said, “Oh, yes, we
purchase all varieties of movies, motion pictures, foreign films,
just a whole range of them that we have upstairs.” And he said, “Oh, I just didn’t even realize it.”
He didn’t actually have an issue with it, he just didn’t
know. |
| He
was happy to know that there were motion pictures in the library
that he could ... |
It
was just “Oh, I didn’t realize that you would purchase R
stuff. ”He was okay
with it. He didn’t have a problem with it. He just didn’t know.
And I think for a lot of people, they don’t know that you can be
offended in the public library just as easily as you can be
delighted, and that’s what we’re about. |
| Another
story that’s been ... Another issue that’s been in the news and
has been a topic of discussion in the Idaho Library Association is a
news story of last summer broadcast in Idaho Falls, I believe, on
Channel 8 news, an interview with an U.S. Attorney Tom Moss and a
constitutional scholar, Dr. Adler, from Idaho State University,
concerning the Patriot Act, predominantly the troublesome Section
215 which provides for the searches of public records in libraries
with the concomitant gag order. Moss said during the interview what
some Idaho librarians find very offensive, that people would like to
set up libraries as safe havens for criminal conduct and that much
of child pornography that happens in the United States comes out of
public libraries, that libraries should not be a safe haven for
crime. I heard on the news just this morning that a public library
in Florida ... I don’t know whether it was Orange ... is it Orange
County, Florida? I’m not sure ... had just set up a policy
forbidding, prohibiting single men from loitering in the
children’s room.How do you respond to that? I mean, to your knowledge, has
anything like that been even talked about here in Idaho among the
Idaho librarians?
|
I
know that that’s a very fine line that I think some librarians
could cross. And what I mean is that I think that most children’s
librarians are pretty clear about protecting children.
Unfortunately, they sometimes lose sight of some of our
constitutional rights that should be afforded all people. And I’m
not saying that they are doing this. I’m saying that it’s a very
fine line between protecting children and protecting people’s
rights to being in a public library. It’s very easy to look for
someone who seemingly doesn’t fit. What you have to be careful
with is when you start labeling those people and categorizing them
and excluding a whole category. It’s the behavior you want to look
for, it’s not the person, it’s not their gender, it’s not
their race, it’s the behavior. |
| Which
applies to anyone. |
Exactly. |
| What
do you think has made this such an issue? Is it the Internet? |
[Pause]
That’s interesting. Maybe. They access ... Generally children’s
departments have access to the Internet, and some of the libraries
restrict or limit adult use from that area, while they make it
available in other areas of the library. I don’t know. I don’t
know the incidents behind this. I do know that sometimes I think as
humans we sometimes are very reactive to situations and sometimes
maybe we may need to step back and … are we making policies and
procedures that benefit the whole community, or are we making those
just to exclude a few? |
| On
the basis of reaction and not reason. |
Yes. |
| I
wonder ... |
I
mean, we certainly have role models within our current affairs to
make us be that way. I mean, that’s what ... I think that’s what
we’re seeing in our government, in the world. |
| Making
us suspicious ... |
And
being reactionary. |
| Do
you ... I wonder ... although I wonder whether the availability of
pornography on the Internet has brought ... brings people to
libraries and attracts people, attracts child pornographers to
children’s rooms? I wonder if that’s what they’re reacting to? |
I
think it might be. It might also be that they had some incident that
they’re reacting to. |
| Some
specific incident. |
I
don’t know. |
| Of
course, I don’t know, either. I’m anxious to see what the reason
is. |
I
mean, there are times when we do have to ... It’s obvious when
incidents happen that maybe you have holes in your policies and you
need to redo them. But you don’t need to go so far as to start
excluding people and to go so far that you stop being a public
library, or an academic library, or wherever you may be. |
| This
is certainly an issue in public libraries, not in academic
libraries. |
And
I haven’t been in public libraries before the Internet, so I
don’t have an anecdotal history of what was and what is. I have
been in children’s services when there have been access to the
Internet and access to pornography, and I have seen pornographic
images displayed in children’s rooms in public libraries, and I
feel very strongly that’s not the time and place for it. |
| Are
these adults? |
Sometimes.
Sometimes it’s kids getting stuck in it. |
| You
have Internet access for the kids’ here in the children’s room.
Do you have filters? |
This
library has filters. |
| Is
it because of the funding? What is the funding? It’s not LSTA, is
it, or ...? E-Rate? |
The
Children’s Internet Protection Act? Well, actually I can’t speak
a lot to the reasoning behind the filters here. They were here
before I got here, and I don’t know what issues were in place.
This library has chosen to adhere to CIPA, so that means that any
patron seventeen and older can request that the filter be disabled,
and we do so. |
| Is
that true in the Children’s Room, as well, or do they have to go
upstairs? |
We
first ask them to go upstairs. We generally ... as a kind of
unwritten policy, we encourage adults who aren’t here with their
kids to utilize the computers upstairs, leaving the computers down
here available for kids. They have first priority. |
| Are
the computers upstairs filtered, as well? |
They
are. |
| They
all have to be filtered to be CIPA compliant? |
Right.
And then they’re ... and then with the procedure in place that
they can be unfiltered upon request. |
| What
filter are you using? |
I
don’t know. Sorry. |
| Is
it working? |
Define
working. [Laughter] |
| And
so it blocks out a lot of legitimate ... |
And
then the problem is, I think, particularly in the kid’s room, is
we don’t always hear what’s blocking out. So, I don’t think
we’ll ever get it right. And what I mean is if you don’t have
the patron continually providing you feedback as to which sites you
can let through and you can’t, they’re going to walk away
frustrated. |
| It’s
just not flawless, is it? |
It
isn’t and both ways. I worked at Boise Public Library where there
wasn’t a filter, and there are problems with that. I work here
where there is a filter, and there are problems with that. |
| Do
you feel that the filter’s protecting the kids? |
Absolutely
not. |
| You
don’t. |
No,
I think it’s providing a ... what’s the word I’m looking for?
... a perceived safety net. Parents are perceiving that it is, and
it’s our job to let them know that it’s not. |
| Well,
what is the best ... what’s the safest way for a kid to surf the
Net? Is it side by side with Mom or Dad? |
I
think it’s that they’re educated on how to surf. I think
that’s the best way. I think they need to ... It’s the best way
you and I can surf it. Why shouldn’t ... why should a kid be any
different? If you’re going for this kind of information, you ought
to be looking here. If you want this kind of information, here’s
ways to get to that kind of information. All this stuff’s out
here. All this stuff’s out there in the world. This is the real
world. The question is How long will I take getting there? And
let’s develop some strategies to get us there. |
| Do
the majority of kids come without there parents or with them? Do you
have a sense of ...? |
I
think the majority come with the parents. |
| Do
a lot of kids come after school? |
We
have a handful that come after school. Generally the kids that come
after school come with their parents. We do have a lot of
after-school kids coming, but more, I think, are with their parents
than without. |
| Do
they ...? What do they do most? Find books to check out and take
home, or do they ...? |
Well,
just a whole range of stuff. Some of them are working on reports,
some of them are finding movies, some of them are big audio-book
listeners, some of them come for our programs. |
| What
kind of programs do you have? |
They’re
a whole range. We offer teen programs. We have a weekly teen program
that varies. Sometimes they just sit around and play games.
Sometimes they do art projects. Sometimes we take them to a local
bookstore and let them pick out books for our collection. It’s
really a fun thing to do. |
| I’ve
never heard of that. That really gives them some investment in the
library, doesn’t it? |
Yes.
It does. Absolutely. We’ve done it a couple of times where we’ll
just take a handful of them, we’ll give them a dollar amount. We
always take the person who knows the collection really well, because
then she’s able to say, “Well, we already have that one. Why
don’t you try something else?” So that we’re being fiscally responsible. But I have to
tell you a little story about the last time we did this. We took, I
think, six of them. We met at Barnes and Noble. We were there for an
hour and a half, two hours. They went around with their baskets, and
they each got a dollar amount to spend. They could buy books, they
could buy music. They generally buy a lot of graphic novels. And
this one teen, he—I think he’s a senior this year—he stayed
until the very end, and I ... Everybody else had left, and I said,
“That’s okay. You can go. I can take care of this.” And he said, “No, I want to know how much we spent. I want
to know how much you guys let us spend.” So we tallied it all up, and he was just in awe that we let
them spend this much money. And then he said, “This was the best
day of my life.” Can
you imagine? |
| [Laughter]
He’ll come back to library and look at the books that he bought. |
That’s
right. And on the front cover it says, “This book was selected by
our Teen Advisory Board,” or something like that. We have a Teen
Advisory Board that, again, does a variety of things. Sometimes they
help us determine what kinds of teen programs we want to have.
Sometimes they’re used as a sounding board for ideas we may have.
Sometimes they do book discussions. Just a variety of things. |
| I
wonder if this is a small way of getting young people interested in
libraries ... |
I
think so. |
| ...
and the library profession? |
And
the library profession. Yes. We also offer school-age programs, and
those vary. Right now, we’re offering a science program, a craft
program, and that’s on a regular basis, as well as some special
programs in between. We’ve done a series of gardening programs.
We’re going to start ... I think we’re calling it Nuts and
Bolts. It’s a technology program where we take stuff apart and we
take computers apart and cell phones apart. So if you have any ... |
| Old
equipment. |
[Laughter]
... equipment, keep us in mind. Anybody out there! [Laughter] |
| Do
you ...? Of course you have probably story hours. |
And
then we ... Our heaviest programming is something that I think we
do extremely well at this library is our children’s programming
for the preschool ages. We offer story times. We offer a preschool
art program, which is a process art program, which ... To do a
simple definition between an art program and, say, our craft
program, the process art program is without an end product in mind.
The focus is on the process. So a child may be given a cup of paint
and ... or here’s an example. A child is given a little cup of
shaving cream, a little cup of powdered paint, and a golf ball, and
that’s set in front of the child, and it’s their job to just
engage in the process. There’s no end product that says this is
what you should do. We do offer those other programs, and our craft
program is very much goal oriented: “Here’s what we’re making today. Now let’s have fun
doing it,” and everybody can be creative. But the process art
program is for the preschool years, from three to six, and they do
need to separate from their parent, so that the parent isn’t
helping them determine what that end goal is. It’s really about
the child and the development of the child. |
| So
you have some creative results. |
Yes,
it’s really fun. I love watching them. It’s so involved. Some
kids will spend five minutes, some will spend thirty-five on a
project. |
| Is
it your job as Director to coordinate those programs, or do you have
a staff member that does that, or ...? |
No,
and that’s what ... I, of course, do it with the staff, because
we’re only as good as ... How does that old adage go? “The
whole is only as good as the sum of the parts. ”It’s up to all of us to make these work. We also offer a
music and movement program, which is a program that focuses on
physical developmental stages and activities for young children, as
well as programs for babies, toddlers, general story-tellings, that
sort of thing. |
| Are
you the only MLS librarian in the department? |
No. |
| You
have ... How many are you? |
One
other in this department. |
| How
many departments in the library? |
Well,
we’ve had a recent kind of change, so we have sort of different
departments, but there may be one person over them, so the lines are
a little fuzzy. But we have a Reference and Tech Services that are
all kind of part of one, and a Circulation, and then a Youth
Services and Outreach. And then we also have branches, but we have
one person sort of overseeing the branch. |
| How
many branches are there? |
There
is the main library, then there is a branch in Star, Idaho. |
| Where
is that? |
Do
you know where Eagle is? Just west of Eagle on the same road there.
And Star’s really growing, lots and lots of houses. And we also
have a very interesting branch at the Hidden Springs. Hidden
Springs is a planned community. It’s only eight years old. It sits
north of Boise ... so it’s actually quite a distance from this
library ... north of Boise, up in the foothills, and it’s a
self-service branch. They have a mercantile there that’s a grocery
store, a restaurant, it’s like the community center. And we have a
fairly large wall of books. The patrons go in and self-check out
their materials. We have a staff member that goes once a week,
delivers materials, picks things up, and does some children’s
programs while they’re there. |
| Tamra,
what encouragement could you give your colleagues who don’t have
the professional degree to get that degree? What is the value of the
degree, the most valuable part of having the degree, and how would
you encourage ...? Can you give some words of advice and
encouragement to our colleagues? |
Maybe.
[Chuckle] I think you just need to do it, and I can’t quite
describe what it’s meant for me. It’s not about seeking ...
[Pause] I’m struggling for words here. It’s not about seeking the acceptance of those that do and
those that don’t. It’s about really fulfilling personal goals,
education, and development that only you can do. |
| So
it’s got to be something you want. |
It
does, and you should be wanting it for the right reason. |
| What
is that reason? |
And
that’s to be the best you can be, to do your job the best that you
can to make a difference in your community every single day. It’s
a privilege to be able do that, to make a difference in a child’s
life, to share that moment with the parent when they learn to read,
when they’ve made some kind of connection. And I think it’s our
responsibility to be the best that we can be, and for me library
school was a huge part of that, and I suspect it would be for
anybody else out there who’s willing to give it a chance. I
don’t think I can ... I’m not able to describe what it means. |
| And
your colleagues have recognized that in granting you the award. |
Yes,
I guess so. They, a few of them ... There’s one colleague, in
particular, who was the instigator. She’s my former cellmate at
the Boise Library, Linda Brilz, who is an incredible librarian and
somebody I continue to learn a lot from. As you’ll see in my
speech, she taught me something more valuable than anybody ever has
and probably ever will, and that’s how to humiliate myself in ways
I never dreamed possible. |
| Again,
just to be a better librarian. |
And
to have fun. You can fun while you’re doing this, and the parents
can have fun along with you. The kids ... they’re much better at
having fun, but sometimes it’s ... |
| We
have to learn ... |
...
the adults ... We don’t have to learn, we have to un-learn how to
not. I think most of us knew it at one time. |
| Well,
Tamra, thanks so much for your time. |
Thank
you. |
| I
appreciate it. Congratulations once again. |
Thank
you. |